Polling Station – Rd12

Written by Schwarzwalder on June 3 2019

Welcome back to the Polling Station for Rd12, where you control the content at SCT!

Whatever polls you’d like to see ahead of Rd12, let us know in the comments below.  We’ll do our best to work them into our schedule during the week…….

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68 thoughts on “Polling Station – Rd12”

  1. Do the bye rounds make everyone lose interest? Or is it just me? Worst three weeks of the season.

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    1. If you plan them right, they can be the best three weeks of the season. No other three-round block gives you the same opportunity to get a jump on the competition.

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    1. yes, this would be a good poll – for Parker in particular, with the additional component being do we think Kennedy coming back will impact his scores negatively??

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  2. I’m assuming there will be a poll about amount of warm bodies on the field for each bye round once team selections are in. It doesn’t hurt to see if there will be one, just in case it has been forgotten.

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    1. Maybe broaden the poll to which PODs could run top 6/8/6 by line from now to season’s end.
      No need to discuss RUCs 😉

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      1. Yeah, sure. Selecting Cunnington is a matter of whether you think he’ll finish TOP 8. Atm, I think he might.

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  3. What to do with Rory Sloane?
    1 week maybe, 2 weeks turns into 3 with the bye. Hmmmm? Whitfield’s in the same boat, double hmmmm?

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      1. “possibly a month”. Name and attach your source before you start giving people heart attacks late in the afternoon.

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        1. The source (on Twitter) has been outed as less than reliable. I won’t quote the language used on here!
          Apologies for the undue stress.

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          1. The source was Tony Sheahan and unsure on his credibility as I assume the sentiment regrading him previously was his position in the industry was due to nepotism (son of Mike Sheahan).

            Would wait for confirmation from either GWS or Adam Curley. Was initially diagnosed as a stinger and Cameron mentioned in the post game presser that “He wanted to come back on but we didn’t want to risk him late in the game. I’m proud of how tough he is and expect him to be fine”.

            Also stinger is similar/same as a burner and in the NRL earlier this season NRL Physio (twitter) a physiotherapist & injury analyst occasionally featuring on Fox League mentioned in regards to a burner injury suffered that “Most burners settle within minutes, but if there are lingering symptoms such as weakness/numbness smart to stay off the field”.

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      1. David Teague is there for the remainder of the season. It’s very unlikely anything will happen until the off-season.

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    1. In no particular order, here’s my current A-list for potential replacements:

      • Paul Roos
      • Alastair Clarkson
      • John Longmire
      • Ross Lyon
      • Brett Ratten
      • Blake Caracella

      My early tip is Ross Lyon. He’s great friends with SOS (who has a LOT of power inside Princes Park), has worked with our football boss Brad Lloyd at Fremantle, and is also close friends with Paul Roos, who has refused to rule out taking up a non-coaching job at the club.

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      1. UPDATE: Ross Lyon spotted dining in Carlton with SOS, according to Herald Sun.

        Told you. 😉

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  4. Do any non Carlton people feel sorry for them ? I do for short periods, then I remember 1999.

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    1. I do. Is it really all Bolton’s fault? NO IT ISNT.
      List management and board/senior management at least, if not more culpable.

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      1. I would have sacked Silvagni before Bolton. Great player, sure, but an absolutely TERRIBLE list manager.

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        1. I have to disagree completely here. You could question SOS’ overall strategy – the near-exclusive focus on youth has left us vulnerable on-field – but his strike-rate has been very good.

          Most of the supposed ‘busts’ that people talk about (e.g. GWS rejects) were there as placeholders, represented an improvement on the delisted players they were replacing, and cost very little to acquire.

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          1. Gotta disagree….who has sos’ greatest trade triumphs been ? When a club is 15 years into a 3 year rebuild, heads other than the coach must roll….starting with both silvangis. And they have already given up next year’s no 1 pick…who was it for again ?

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            1. Everyone keeps bringing up us giving up pick 1. The important point is that we didn’t think it was going to be pick 1 – that’s why Bolton was fired. We wouldn’t have sacked him for us being on the bottom if we’d expected to be there. And we probably wouldn’t have made that trade, either.

              But we’ll still get a top-10-ish pick back, so it’s not a complete disaster. And for all we know, Stocker could turn into a star.

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          2. Ok Salamander, it’s raining here and I’ve got nothing to do so I have made a list of the players Carlton has acquired from other clubs in the four years Silvagni has headed up their list management.

            Gorringe, Wright, Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips, Plowman, Sumner, Smedts, Marchbank, Pickett, Palmer, A. Silvagni, Lobbe, Kennedy, Mullett, Garlett, Shaw, Lang, McGovern, Setterfield, Newman, Goddard and Bugg.

            Successes I would say are Wright, Plowman and Marchbank. The jury is still out on McGovern (he cost them a lot), Setterfield and Newman. As for the rest I don’t even think they have made the Northern Blues successful.

            Surely a coach is only as good as the players at his disposal and being given a list full of players who failed to make it at their initial club always meant Bolton was doomed to fail.

            So yes, Silvagni does have a lot to answer for.

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            1. I reckon Cripps must just about have had enough…..he would look great in red and black !!

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            2. I’ll go through the players you mentioned in order:

              Gorringe: Backup ruck, cost essentially nothing. Didn’t work out, but no harm done.
              Wright: Cost nothing, gave good service. Big tick.
              Kerridge: Was a useful contributor for a couple of years. Acquired along with Lamb, Sumner, Phillips, and Plowman for, effectively, Troy Menzel (who is no longer on an AFL list).
              Lamb: Was okay for a couple of years, was 50/50 to keep his spot this year.
              Phillips: At worst, a solid backup ruckman.
              Plowman: An integral part of our back-six. He alone makes this trade worth it.
              Sumner: Held down a list spot for a couple of years. Yes, like Lamb and Kerridge, he wasn’t brilliant, but all three were a big improvement on the players they replaced at the end of 2015.
              Smedts: Steak knives in the the Tuohy deal. Didn’t work, but it’s not like SOS went out and headhunted him.
              Marchbank: Big tick. Along with Smedts and Pickett, we basically got him for Tuohy.
              Pickett: Has shown promise, but keeps getting injured. Was steak knives in the Marchbank deal, so no big deal if he doesn’t work out.
              Palmer: Pure salary cap dump. We took him for a nominal draft pick (pick 140-something from memory). Basically, GWS wanted to get him off their books, and we helped them do it, in exchange for them giving us a discount on other deals (like Marchbank).
              A. Silvagni: Cost nothing. We had no mature key defenders (we were yet to discover Jones’ talent in this area). Would you rather we sent Weitering et. al. out to get snapped in half each week?
              Lobbe: Cost nothing. An okay second backup ruck. By all accounts a good influence on the younger players.
              Kennedy: Question mark at this stage.
              Mullett: Didn’t work, but cost absolutely nothing. No great harm done.
              Garlett: Cost essentially nothing; has potential if we can find the right role for him
              Shaw: We wanted to get some mature bodies into the midfield. This one didn’t work out. He also cost nothing, so no harm done.
              Lang: Jury’s out. Didn’t cost that much in any case.
              McGovern: Cost a fair bit, but a qualified tick at this stage.
              Setterfield: Basically the same as above, although less expensive than McGovern.
              Newman: Big tick. He can play, and cost very little (4th round pick from memory).
              Goddard: Rookie draft pick, not trade, and is mainly there for depth. Jury’s out.
              Bugg: Cost nothing, decided he wanted to pursue his business interests instead of football.
              Fasolo: You forgot this one. A cross at this stage, but cost nothing.

              The trouble with bringing up lists like this is that they lack context. Keep in mind that there were about 15 list spots that needed filling at the end of 2015, heading into what was widely considered a thin draft. What was SOS supposed to do? So yes, he brought in a lot of players who are no longer at the club. Most, however, were only ever there as placeholders anyway, and cost very little. That last part is particularly important.

              When you put it all together, you can basically boil the ins and outs to the following:
              • Marchbank and Pickett for Tuohy.
              • Plowman and Phillips for Troy Menzel.
              • McGovern for a first-round pick.
              • Setterfield for a second-round pick.
              • Kennedy for a second-round pick.
              • Newman for a fourth-round pick.
              • Lang for a late-ish pick.
              • Fasolo for free.

              Overall, that’s a pretty good return on investment, and certainly not the trainwreck you’re making it out to be.

              And that’s before we get to SOS’ drafting, which has been good (I can go through it pick-by-pick if you’d like).

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              1. Sal, you have to place the blame some where. I get it sucks that your team has been, let’s call it what it is, shit for a while, but you have to call it like it is: the list has been poorly managed and poorly coached.

                Your assessment of Silvangni’s work doesn’t match reality. For one, your characterization of McGovern as a “qualified tick at this stage” is ludicrous. Seen avoiding contests, marking numbers down, repeatedly out of position, doesn’t take the game on- FoxFooty did a good break down of him last week.

                Again, it must blow going for Carlton but keep your chin up- it will get better. You’ve got a captain in Cripps who is committed to club, an absolute workhorse and probably the best player in the comp AND there’s a good contingent of talented youth who just need some discipline and experience.

                Until then though, you can’t defend the indefensible: coaching and list management at Carlton has been a disaster.

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                1. | Your assessment of Silvangni’s work doesn’t match reality.

                  Yes, it does. The bulk of supposed ‘busts’ who were brought in were NEVER intended to be long-term prospects, but to help fill list spots and get some mature bodies into the team while SOS worked his magic at the draft. And they were acquired for little to nothing. That’s a fact.

                  | For one, your characterization of McGovern as a “qualified tick at this stage” is ludicrous.

                  That’s one player. We can agree to disagree about him. But it doesn’t change anything I said about any other player.

                  | Until then though, you can’t defend the indefensible

                  Well I am. 😛

                  | coaching and list management at Carlton has been a disaster.

                  I don’t see how you can simultaneously point the finger at both. Either the list is no good, in which case Bolton had no case to answer, or it is good, in which case he did.

                  And trust me, I know what bad list management looks like: what we had before SOS took over.

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                  1. One more thing…

                    | there’s a good contingent of talented youth who just need some discipline and experience.

                    Who do you think drafted that talented youth? 😉

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              2. You’re right Salamander, I did forget Fasolo. I also forgot O’Shea.
                That makes a total of 25 players brought in from other clubs over the past 4 years. Of those only 13 are still on the list and 7 played on Sunday in a side that played so poorly the coach was sacked.
                Of the seven who played are Fasolo, Lang, Setterfield and Kennedy all likely to play this week?
                It’s fine to say players are “steak knives” or “cost nothing” but that is only valuable if they are mature bodies who can get a kick and support all the young draft picks. Otherwise they are just list-cloggers.

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                1. Fair point. Certainly, some of the players who were brought in cheaply – Shaw, O’Shea, Mullet, Smedts, to name a few – did nothing for us, and, in isolation, that doesn’t reflect well on SOS. On the other hand, some others, like Kerridge, Lamb, Sumner, and Alex Silvagni provided useful service to the club, and that shouldn’t be overlooked. And still some others – Plowman, Newman, Phillips – have a long-term place at the club, and are definite wins in my book, especially given how little we gave up to get them.

                  Look, I’m not saying that SOS should be exempt from scrutiny, or that he’s got everything right. There are elements of his overall strategy that I question – I think what Gold Coast is currently doing, getting in a bunch of state-league players, as well as mature-age fringe players from other clubs, to support their youngsters is really smart, and it’s something I wish SOS had put more focus on. But I do think he’s drafted a very good young list, and our next coach is going to reap the rewards for it.

                  Sometimes, it can be hard to tell if a list is no good, or if it’s just being poorly coached. Of course, those two things are not mutually exclusive, but my point is that it can be hard to disentangle them. So, having just got rid of one side of that equation, I think the recruiters should be given the benefit of the doubt for the time being. Wait and see what the new guy can do with this list. If the on-field results are still not forthcoming, then this might suggest the issue lies beyond the coach, in which case, by all means take the list managers to task. But sacking both at once makes no sense to me.

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                  1. I do agree you have a very good list of young players, especially if SPS, Curnow and Cunningham can up the ante a bit and become more consistent.

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                    1. @Kovanator (sorry, I can’t seem to reply to your comment directly): I suppose if were were going to have a poll, it would be “Who will coach Carlton in 2020?”.

                      But it’s not really SuperCoach-related, so it would probably only happen if it was a slow news week.

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                  2. I remember the discussions about Richmond pre-2017 about list management and recruiting and they were brutal compared to the non-discussion with Carlton. Guys like SOS and Judd refusing to take responsibility will continually set Carlton back (not that I’m complaining)………

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                    1. Pre-2017. 😉

                      Give the new coach a year with the list before we go sacking anyone else.

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      2. Agree AS.
        Their disposal is crap.
        He may have the plans, but not the correct tools.
        It is just like sacking umpires because players were giving away too many free kicks……..

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  5. Looking to get Cunnington this week for Walsh if Hore isn’t injured. Is Cunners a good M8 option for the rest of season?
    Tu: Yes
    Td: No

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    1. At his current price, you’re paying for a 117.5 ave. because he is yet to have his bye. I’ve calculated that based on you being able to cover it with c.60pts.
      I don’t disagree with the pick, maybe just the timing!
      I’d wait until teams drop later in the week. If you have less than 18 playing and he can help with increasing you onfield numbers then it might just be worth it. If you have 18+ onfield, then you are likely better waiting ($/pt wise) until after his bye and/or a poor score and subsequent price drop.

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      1. Hmm. I was thinking of bringing him in this week:

        ROB -> Bines
        Bolton -> Gardner
        Answerth -> Cunnington

        Leaves me with 131k in the bank, +2 players in R13 and Cunnington v the Suns this week.

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        1. check numbers across the byes with the planner – a new one to come out soon as Schwarzy has space to load it up!!

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        2. Don’t think it’s necessarily a bad call, it was more to ensure you know what you’re paying for that’s all.

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          1. yep, Parker and Cunnington both very interesting options – will Parker be impacted by Kennedy’s return?

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  6. Poor carlton , the AFL have them exactly where they want them to be, they rorted the system for near on 30 years, they bought every decent player under the table with the open cheque books of harris elliot and co,they eventually got pinched for salary cap that ruined pagans career, just ask Kernahan,Bradley,naley,dorotich,hunter,busustow,judd!,madden,and many many more recruits how big the paper bags were.
    Im sorry but i cannot feel sorry for Carlton.

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    1. AFL went too hard on Carlton.
      I think most reasonable people agree to that, especially when compared to Essendon.

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      1. Disagree…..Carltons problems are all there own and long gone are those salary rorting days, and the punishments therefrom. In comparing there punishments with Essendon, lets recall that Essendon..

        Were fined $1million
        Were booted out of finals….Carlton took there place.
        Had there virtual firsts team suspended for a year
        Lost draft picks

        And yet, not one player was found to have a positive drug result.

        Carlton need to look inward and identify the problems, and it starts at the top. Until they change the archaic way that they elect board members, they will always wallow in mediocrity and worse. Would Jack Silvagni be playing at any other club but for his father’s presence ??

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        1. Tsk, Tsk, how soon you young’ns forget the North Melbourne, VFL bought/manipulated premiership of the 70s,…….LOL

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      1. That was the real genius of the whole scheme… the bags didn’t even cost us anything!

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  7. A poll on rookie job security would be handy!

    Namely the likes of Bewley, D.Clarke, Gardner, Hinge, etc.

    I’d like to throw the Josh Glenn rule to the wind and go early on a few of these guys (to free up some cash) but only if they’re likely to get more games post-byes.

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    1. This poll looks like a must now, but adding in best replacements should be quite helpful.

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