Over in the Polling Station thread, Hinsch suggested a thread for coaches to share their “never again lists” – which this season has certainly provided and affirmed some entries. Pretty simple: your “never again list”, who’s on there, why, any new 2021 additions and any related selection rules you try to stick to.
I’ll kick things off:
1. GWS players, specifically Whitfield and Kelly.
Resisted the temptation to bring Whitfield in a while ago when everyone was hot on him and, wow, did I feel vindicated when he inevitably went down. Didn’t exactly drill the alternative (Lukosious), but just knew he wouldn’t make it through the season unscathed. Similar deal to Kelly, just doesn’t put full seasons together. The fact that Cameron screws with his best players roles for no reason (eg. Kelly at HF then scratches his head as to why his outputs down) and that the GWS medical staff are hella dodgy has made me put a line through all GWS players full stop.
2. Dustin Martin
Have never liked him as an SC pick in recent years. Tremendous player but given the Tigers depth he isn’t always required on ball and often just chills in the goal square. However I really didn’t see any other options when Danger went down early, I needed a replacement and he’d had that dynamic 157 performance in R1…he then spent the rest of the season reminding me why I’d had him on my never again list.
3. Jeremy Cameron or any other key FWDS.
Just don’t subject yourself to low floor options dependent on goals and game context. Cameron specifically sank my season with his most recent injury – there went my last trade.
Probably a few more I’m forgetting, but its the aforementioned ones that 2021 has firmly placed in my never again list.
Over to you, coaches. Who’s on your “never again list”why, any new 2021 additions and any related selection rules you try to stick to?
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Bolton, Bolton & Bolton!!!!!
Bolton is still young enough and has scope for role change/improvement to make him SC relevant, especially as a mid/fwd.
He has inconsistent scoring and has fallen flat at the wrong end of the year but the games played isn’t a concern, just role, maturity (fitness, consistency, growth as a player etc) and form.
I really wanted to put Bolton on my list but i just couldn’t. Like Peter says, he’s got scope to improve his consistency. For me though, there’s no way i’m starting him in 2021 regardless of his likely juicy starting price. I need to see that he won’t throw the stinkers in every month or so. I’ll let others ride that journey for me.
People need to understand with the Tigers is that we don’t play a supercoach friendly gamestyle. We don’t have stat-padders. So Bolton and others will score inconsistently and that shouldn’t be any surprise.
88+ every game minus one till i got him in for 5 under 60..
wasn’t bad until wrist injury. Definitely could come back next season and resume that great form he had earlier this year so don’t count him out next season.
Players that turn it on in the preseason comp, only to revert back to their usual ordinariness once the real season begins (I started with Phillips and Clark -money would have been better spent on one more premium and another rookie) .
So on my never again list – preseason pretenders.
I like this Lisa. I too fell for Phillips in my midfield who I ended up cutting loose reasonably early.
I think the lesson though was that sometimes the opposition matters in the pre-season. North were as woeful a team as we had seen in years early in the season and opposition teams feasted SC wise, but because there was only the 2 preseason games it was hard to tell if it was an anomaly or not.
The pig
Zac Williams
T kelly
P cripps
Heeney
Agree on all GWS players except possibly Haynes.
Recruit Cripps of course
T Greene…no excuse needed
Fyfe..his sc relevant days are over
Zorko…always cops a suspension and chucks in a shocker or two.
Danger….my new favorite tadpole
Dusty….emerging tadpole
Neale…showing signs of injury prone..welcome T Miller to his spot
Nearly fully agree.
Neale is nowhere near my never again list, he had missed 2 games in 7 years prior to this one, I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt. He is probably 10-25 points undervalued based on his last 7 years of work.
What is a tadpole?
Oxford dictionary defines a tadpole as:
“the tailed aquatic larva of an amphibian (frog, toad, newt, or salamander), breathing through gills and lacking legs until the later stages of its development.”
It’s a Father Dougall classic. Early stages of someone who is about to become a frog, and unlike as tadpole, spend the rest of its life doing nothing but sit around.
Never again (enjoy your retirement): Tom Rockliff, Marc Murphy and Stephen Hill. Some amazing SC highs and heartbreak in those 3 guys.
This is a tough topic – I would consider any potential premium if they are 20ppg underpriced. My never again list really only applies to starting selections, the never again tag gets loosened then fewer games they need to remain fit for.
Just the guys who were in my team at some point:
1) Tex Walker, I knew you were a bad trade in at the time
2) Isaac Heeney, dont think you will ever play 20 games and get proper midfield time
3) Max Gawn, a #2 draft pick who has the goods to share ruck duties with, no longer the uber premium
4) Pat Cripps, we all know the story here
5) Dusty & Danger, you always manage to drop to around $150k from your strating price and are better suited for coming in around the byes as you ramp up for the run home, just not this season.
My tread with caution list now has:
1) Josh Dunkley, can’t seem to manage a full season, amazing when playing
2) Lachie Witfield, always priced below what your true value is, if you dont get injured in the first quarter 3 times and have 2 late outs
3) Josh Kelly, for my SC team, please leave GWS.
4) Tim Taranto and Toby Greene, GWS players are bad for SC (watch me select Coniglio next season 🙁 for value)
With Rockliff retiring today is seems fitting to formally induct the 2021 class to the Rockliff/Higgins Hall of Fame
Dan Houston
Scored six tons this season to match his six sub 60 scores. Who wouldn’t want a player in their SC team with the ability to win you a H2H and then be the reason you lose your H2H the following week. NEVER AGAIN!
Isaac Heeney
Similar to our previous inductee, I. Heeney has the uncanny ability to look brilliant, score brilliantly, suck us all in at a discounted price for a player with a high ceiling and then be a total potato for the next month. I hope he gets it together and becomes a consistent footballer but … NEVER AGAIN!
Zac Williams
I’d informally lodged the paperwork for this nomination in 2020 but i would like to formally acknowledge his contributions to the GWS and Carlton medical room. NEVER AGAIN!
Dom Tyson
Former high draft pick with strong preseason form in a wooden spoon team. What more wasn’t there to like? 2021 would be his year! Scores of 29 and 41 in round 1 and 2 and he was out of the North team, out of my team and likely out of the AFL system when his contract runs up. NEVER AGAIN!
Any GWS, West Coast, Richmond and my inconsistent Swanneez.
Bye rounds are going to be so much fun……
Agree on GWS, Eagles and Tigers.
Can’t write of the Swans in SC though.
Lloyd just ends up Top 6. Shouldn’t have started him at his price this year but still solid. Will be 575k next year.
Heeney, in full flight and fitness, is also hard to resist.
I know he had an injury riddled year, but his role in the back end has been great; comes up to stoppages, covers the ground well, the odd CB. Won’t start him next year but feel like he has a 100-105 season in him.
You left off Mills, who was probably my pick of the year had he not been quarantined for 2 weeks.
I dunno, Hawkins has consistently averaged over 85 over the last 6 years. So I wouldn’t completely rule out key forwards
Kinda feel the same. A good key forward is ok, on the proviso that he’s in a good team. There’s just not that many of them around.
Very fitting day for this GD, what with the retirement of Rockliff, the biggest burn man in the history of SC.
Agree, absolutely done with GWS- putting a line through all of them. Endless heartache & frustration.
Dusty too. Always been a bit underwhelming SC-wise for a guy of his ability (other than 2017).
Heeney- what an absolute mirage he’s been this year. Undoubtedly talented and appearing at a beautiful price just when we were most desperate for forwards only to turn out to be the spudliest of spuds. Plus he’s made of chalk.
Cripps- sadly deteriorated into SC irrelevance.
Lachie Neale…hate to write off a guy after one bad season, but I feel he’s going to develop a Rockliff-like relationship with me.
And while not quite a “never again”, I always seem to miss out on the best of Max Gawn, but always get his worst. This year’s effort is not what I paid $750K for. Would be very happy to find a suitable replacement for him next year.
Draper
More realistically Darcy I think …
Tom Phillips. Nuff said.
Thanks GD, timely topic….I’m embarrassed to be typing some of these names, but here we go:
Docherty (sad face)
Cripps (more sad face)
Fyfe
Sidebottom
JKelly
Heeney (cringe every time he goes for a hanger, that’s not good)
Franklin
Dusty? (if he’s M/F still going to be hard to ignore with that ceiling)
I’ve never been a fan of never again lists. Many started Steele in 2018 and 19 he burnt them with a mid 90s average. He then broke out late after looking like he’d be just a good midfielder his whole career. Similarly, writing off players like Neale and Cripps who’ve had injury issues may result in you missing them returning to form in the future.
Yep that was me. Huge Steele fan, started with him in 2017, 2018 and 2019 but while as a saints man I was loving his output on the field, he was not quite putting together the supercoach numbers I wanted.
He was put on my never again list as I thought I was just thinking with my heart not my head when picking him.
I haven’t had him the last 2 years, huge mistake.
Tom Hawkins is the highest ranked key forward in SC. He comes in at 75th overall on the average scores. Ziebell, Hall and Dale are actually defenders but score much higher. Marshall, Zorko, Dunkley get plenty of mid time. When Danger plays forward his scores plummet. The scores of Daniher and Heeney are almost solely dependent on kicking goals. There is a problem with the scoring system for genuine forwards that has existed for many years.
Interesting piece of analysis there Guru, maybe SC should award 1 point every time a fwd is targeted from an inside 50, would only be about 80 extra points per game to award.
Would bring Key forwards right back into the SuperCoach mix. The telecasters run with those stats quite often so they are already getting measured.
Some key forwards would pick up around 20 points a game I think.
very interesting comment and well worth suggesting to CD I think!
Will start with a short storey.
Once upon a time : Preseason I read an article that peaked my interest. In short in said you should look for underpriced players that had the potential to go to the next level instead of selecting proven players priced at their top $ . I thought this had merit therefore I started with
Stefan Martin NEVER AGAIN
Hunter Clarke Not sure what to say about him
Houston Expected better
Simpkin “”””””””””””[ Still have both going into the Prem final in 2 cash leagues]
That same article influenced my decisions to go with low level premiums as opposed to high level mid pricers:
Mills, Docherty
Cripps, Taranto and trade in Walsh for rd2
Grundy
Dunkley, De Goey
Cripps and De Goey are the stinkers, yet De Goey over the run home has shown why I made that starting selection. Taranto and Docherty are neutral. Dunkley was great until injured. Mills, Walsh and Grundy were hits.
The concept isn’t bad, finding the correct undervalued player is hard and hit and miss.
Hmm, sounds familiar…..
Of course Walsh would have worked out, and Lloyd was a real bust. A lot depends on who you get and avoid. Ziebell early did well. I wish I had grabbed Cumming. Hunter Clark, grr….
Treloar anybody?
Get stuffed Heeney.
Never again
Got sucked in to Rozee – bit soft for mine.
Others;
Heeney
Whitfield
Kelly
Bolton
Danger
Josh Kelly
Dusty
GWS players are always trouble for me (Whitfield & Kelly), WCE none worth having, Nic Nat only plays 50%, Shuey injury prone and Gaff well no more said.
Richmond (Bolton & Martin) are going the same way, not a lot to get excited over there this year. WOW the list of possible players for next year is getting smaller and smaller, hopefully there are a lot more DPP next year at least give us a chance.
Never again goes to shite Bolton
Have one trade left and in prelim cash league, have 26k to spend
TU sell Bramble or Bolton
TD save the trade for the gf if I make it